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    babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

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    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:00 pm


    (this used to be called no context=babies) ..and may not be for everybody. (in case it is of interest to someone..)

    What if ...

    babies are wired up to belong to a clan.
    babies environments have changed more than their brains have evolved.

    older babies and young children run through childlike versions of 'cluster b' traits as they find their coping strategies for stress and traumas to manage within their environment.
    if all goes well, and they don't perceive or actually experience trauma, the coping strategies don't become exaggerated / held.

    - fetus/new babies will :use sucking reflex (oxytocin) - maybe begins setting adrenaline levels 
    (when they sense their mother's stress hormones increase)

    -1 year olds will :use cling reflex (want to be carried) - maybe adrenaline levels become set
    (trigger-mother's stress hormones and when they perceive a threat)

    - 2 year olds will :hide, cover face , try to not get noticed ,freeze
    (when they sense a threat)

    - 3 year olds will :imagine (become a cat, use a different voice) , submit (give, please) ...fawn
    (when they sense threat)

    -4 year olds will :negotiate reality (internally "hitting my head helps me remember the rules") ...ocd  

    they keep the tools that are used the most in a bag called personality. (the parent/family personality)

    i think joining a peer group is part of personality development

    -all young children are giving and receiving body language to each other
    -all young children are looking to older children for instruction
    -the wiring of 'peer pressure' is for wanting to join the peer group
    -babies and young children aren't wired for autonomy and are wired for exploration


    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:05 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:20 pm

    hi again,

    for the sake of argument let's say :
    there is nature (of the earth . not man made)
    "we" are mammals

    Special vs Unique :

    Unique - only one of it's kind
    Special - better , greater ,or otherwise different from what is usual

    "people are like snowflakes" is the saying so let's look at snowflakes.  
    every snowflake is unique.  if every snowflake is unique, then no snowflake is special.

    now, let's look at people.  if every person is unique, then no person is special.

    Question - Why does nature make unique people? (personality)

    Rough answer :  
    -Young children are wired up for specific events to occur in their life.  
    I think this is fixed in the brain and is triggered by their clan and environment.  
    -Young children are wired to engage in specific ways (body language)
    -Young children look to older children (those older children had done the same thing from the older children before them ,etc).

    a) If young children are wired up to follow the example/social structure of older children
    b) If young children are wired up with the same basic age-specific-reaction-types (coping-strategies)  regardless of society/geography
    c) If older children are wired up to lead younger children by example (peer pressure)

    and ...
    d) If confusion is threatening to young children, then ....

    Nature provides a non-confusing way to pass information to young children.   

    To learn : gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in something by study , experience, or being taught
    Personality = the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individuals distinctive character

    Maybe a unique personality is nature's way of teaching  through this cycle :

    A personality is a predicable example of a few characteristics and qualities by which a young child in the clan learns from and forms his/her own personality  to be a predictable example of a few characteristics and qualities by which a young child in the clan learns from and forms his/her own personality by which a young child in the clan ...



    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:13 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:40 pm

    3/4 year olds start to make up reasons for their gaps in understanding.
    (they just need to be reasons. they don't need to be accurate to satisfy. the point is to minimize confusion to eliminate fear.)
    - it's 'success' is in the child's ability to fit to the parents / peer group

    -maybe 2 year olds ask why and tantrum so much because they ask until they understand.. and we live in such an abstract (modern) world that the answers don't satisfy the questions.

    -there is a natural system (based in peer group body language and behaviour wiring)  that children a.r.e. working under

    -now, part of modern-parenting is the job of dismissing the wiring of their small children in order to 'adapt' them into the modern world.

    -young children need simple and same first.  
    -young brains are ready to take on anything...not everything.
     
    -baby brains are flexible to be able to be born to anyone / anywhere

    consider :

    no perceived danger = no fear =safe

    perceived danger = fear = not safe

    physically threatened , emotionally threatened , resource access threatened = fear (regardless of specific threat)

    no confusion = no fear = safe
    confusion = fear =not safe

    simple , predictable , relatable , repetitive , and satisfactory explanations = no confusion

    1.there are coping strategies to deal with trauma/confusion/fear outwardly
    2.there are coping strategies to deal with trauma/confusion/fear inwardly
    -both have potential to work
    1. outwardly mitigates fear = (freeze , flight , fawn ,.. )
    2.inwardly mitigates fear = (satisfactory explanations ..even if not true  ie- ocd , self harm)

    -we all have child based coping strategies..
    ...so who are the narcissists? who are the borderlines?  

    -maybe the lack of acceptance into a peer group triggers something? ..if your clan doesn't want you, you can't survive (self , genes)  
    you'll be looking to get  into another clan

    - this alone would explain the reason for the narcissist's behaviour (lies, false personality to fit into the new clan)

    - maybe acceptance into your peer group triggers something?  

    - maybe ocd ,self harming and people pleasing (submissive)  works to satisfy the confusion between:
    -getting the 'wired body language signal' that one didnt get accepted into the  parent /peer group ...and balancing that with the 'fake'  'modern social cues' that one did get accepted into the parent/peer group

    -it stands to reason that triggering 'acceptance wiring' as an adult would help with ..ocd , self harming ...


    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:57 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:33 am

    **this topic. (abandonment / baby stealing )

    originally , i suggested that babies are wired up for baby stealing.  i still think that babies are wired up for being stolen

    .. but i think that it is far more likely that parents are wired up to abandon / adopt babies.... and that babies are wired up to be abandoned and adopted

    how do you know if you really want to be a parent before you're a parent?

    in the natural world, most abandoned babies/children would die ..but some would be picked up by others
    i think there is a mountain of examples in the world of mothers trying to abandon their babies /children
    i think there are a mountain of examples in the world of women/men trying to pick up babies/children
    I think this is based in something natural. I think we 'share' our babies/children.

    -some women don't want babies and don't have them.  i'm not talking about them.

    1.i'm talking about the women that have babies and want to abandon them and do (for any reason)
    -by association, i'm talking about the women and men that 'pick up' the abandoned babies /children

    2.i'm talking about the women that have babies and raise them because they couldn't abandon them (any reason)
    -by association, i'm talking about the adult children of these mothers/fathers


    i'm beginning to think that :

    there isn't much difference in the wiring for abandonment and neglect

    This leads me to think that :

    baby/child that didn't get met with an 'adoption' signal as a child could be in a tough position as an adult ...

    -The baby/child that receives the abandonment signal without the adoption signal will keep looking for the adoption signal into adulthood...while maybe also looking for someone to meet the 'mating' signal
    If one tries to meet these 2 needs with one person, well...

    -If everyone is walking around with 2 personalities (one made for parents and one made for peers) , then a relationship between 2 abandoned children coming together to adopt each other is fine.

    -If everyone is walking around with 2 personalities (parent , peer) , then a relationship with 2 adults wanting to mate with each other is fine.

    -If everyone is walking around with 2 personalities (parent,peer) ,then a relationship with 2 adults wanting to adopt each other  and mate with each other are going to have to use 2 sets of personalities




    (i'm leaving the old bit about stealing babies that used to be the beginning of this post)

    To Steal : take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.
    Fail-safe : a system or plan that comes into operation in the event of something going wrong or that is there to prevent such an occurrence.
    Safe : protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost
    Beacon : a light or other visible object serving as a signal, warning, or guide, especially at sea or on an airfield.

    We're wired for baby stealing.

    (i imagine...)
    If a mother is killed and her babies are stolen :  

    infant reaction : no hormones to detect. survival= milk
    ..baby gets hungry..cries..triggers let down in new mom (milk+calming+bonding hormones for baby and mother) and the infant fully adopts new clan.  the new mother wouldn't 'feel' different about a stolen baby vs her own.

    (if a baby was traumatized by the mother's death, he would not cry.. not trigger lactation..not bond.. and die. nature's fail-safe.
    - the mechanics to set up the potential to trigger ..??.. are in the infants that (perceive) extreme trauma)

    one year old : likely dies when the mom does.. on account of the cling reflex pulling the toddler into danger.
    (maybe it's nature's  fail-safe)
    - it would be a very specifically delicate time.  The one year old still receives hormone signals + wired to use mom's body as a  beacon/safe place during exploration). toddlers are wired to not let go of mom when scared.
    -i'm suggesting the mechanics to set up the potential to trigger psychopaths are in the 1 year olds that (perceive) extreme trauma*

    2 year old : covers eyes, freezes, detaches , parrots new clan's speech /copies behaviours (not fake )
       
    3 year olds : entertain ,give gifts , show affection

    lots of reasons for a clan to steal babies.  
    -Babies are likely replacing dead babies.
    -Makes for loyal slaves.
    -Good for the gene pool

    that's probably why it's still easier to adopt babies and younger children... we're wired for it.

    I think baby stealing is what babies are wired up for. I think clan changes are a big deal to them.


    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:28 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:11 am

    9/10 years old
    -is the time of acceptance (or not)... into the social-peer-group.
    -followed by puberty
    **Child bride-Arrangements (the handshake between the dads part)  , religious rights of passage, girl scouts..seem to fit this wiring.

    maybe.. :

    9/10 year old gets  no acceptance-signal into social-peer group (regardless of reason... not hair-splittingly-context specific.  just.not.in)  

    +  (coping strategies in place from the parent-clan (regardless of reason...not hair-splitting-context specific.  just what worked.)

    = two 'personality' tool sets to work with

    1 personality = used in the peer-group  
    -social tools developing within the peer-group (effective or not effective -changeable)  

    2 personality =used with parents (likely hard-wired by 6)

    self survival plants its seed in the dirt of your fixed coping strategies from 0-5 That Worked for your parent-clan)  

    Rules for the social-peer-group.

    No-acceptance - (the specific reason is not my focus here... just what no-acceptance triggers)

    -are we wired to fake our way into another clan if we get the signal of no-acceptance? 
    (i suggest... good fakers will work their way in and not even get noticed so the clan doesn't 'feel' infiltrated...
    and the offspring would  truly be  like the clan and have every chance of meeting their own peer-group acceptance.
    -nature's way to keep the new clan's gene pool happy?.. and the 'fake' is out in one generation

    eg-i'm imagining an 11 year old girl  that is starving (giving the appearance of  younger girl) and needs to be taken into a clan.  she comes in seemingly, young and weak (no threat). adopts the ways of the clan/is adopted into the clan

    maybe, no contact is only half the equation.

    true story - This one time, an outcast (with a personality bag high in gift giving and promises.. and some psychotic mechanisms to trigger) wanted acceptance into a  peer-group.
    -He started a genocide on Turtle Island with some other outcasts.
    Millions and millions of people were murdered for their land and resources.  the rest is history.. as they say.



    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:39 pm

    so..what am i writing all this for?

    this is my point of view on mental illness/mental wellness.

    it is very much focused around the idea that keeping children un-confused keeps them relaxed and feeling safe.

    eg- remove double binds
    (a situation in which a person is confronted with two irreconcilable demands)

    jenny

    ps. where would the americas be if no one had ever invented the ship?


    Last edited by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : thank you)

    jenny4

    Posts : 12
    Join date : 2016-08-20
    Location : unceded first nations territory

    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

    Post by jenny4 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:33 pm

    ..i'm trying to understand entitlement.

    my question is : what triggers entitlement ? (what's the wiring 'rule'?)

    -if a child is physically 'abandoned' by his parents, it might 'trigger' their 'entitlement' wiring to be adopted
    -if a child isn't physically abandoned by his parents, (i'm calling that 'rejection'), that might trigger entitlement wiring to be adopted

    -if a child is neglected, does that trigger entitlement?
    -if a child is abused, does that trigger entitlement?

    entitlement :
    - the fact of having a right to something.
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim
    -the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

    to abandon:
    -cease to support or look after (someone); desert.
    -give up completely (a course of action, a practice, or a way of thinking).
    -complete lack of inhibition or restraint.

    to reject
    -dismiss as inadequate, inappropriate, or not to one's taste.
    -a person or thing dismissed as failing to meet standards or satisfy tastes.

    to dismiss
    -to treat as unworthy of serious consideration
    -order or allow to leave; send away

    to adopt
    -(legally) take another's child and bring it up as one's own.
    -take up or start to use or follow (an idea, method, or course of action).
    -take on or assume (an attitude or position).

    to trigger
    -cause (an event or situation) to happen or exist.

    **to neglect :
    -fail to care for properly.
    -the state or fact of being uncared for.

    ** to abuse :
    -to use wrongly or improperly; misuse:
    -to abuse one's authority.
    -to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way
    -to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign.
    -to commit sexual assault upon.
    -to deceive or mislead.

    conflict
    -be incompatible or at variance; clash.

    I'm starting to think that nature had/has a plan b for the abandoned and it's rooted in adoption trigger wiring (with or without entitlement).
    The plan didn't go anywhere.
    Our brains are still wired for it.

    (maybe cluster b is what we're calling the conflict that the modern world and nature's plan b are having on people)

    -thank you for letting me post here.

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    Re: babies and children as a simple example of human behaviour to better understand adult behaviour

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